Introduction (: 00:06

Welcome to the Better Than Bitter Divorce Podcast, where we flip the script on divorce and show you how to have a more amicable divorce resolution. I'm your host, Tania Leichliter a divorce coach, a certified life coach, and the mastermind behind the Better Than Bitter five-step game plan course, where I help individuals build a pathway towards a more amicable divorce resolution.

Each week, I'll bring you uplifting stories from people who've successfully experienced amicable separations, proving that divorce doesn't have to be a battleground. Whether you're overwhelmed with grief, struggling with custody and co-parenting, or just dealing with a high-conflict individual, this podcast is here to guide you towards reclaiming your life and being what I know is possible, better than bitter.

Tania Leichliter (: 01:27

Welcome to the Better Than Bitter Podcast, episode number 41, Don't Date for the Wrong Reasons During and After Divorce. Today, we are going to talk about intentional dating 101. Today, I'm joined by Dr. Susan Trotter. I am so excited to have Susan on this podcast. She is a relationship coach, but she also specializes in divorce.

She is all about helping people feel more confident and empowered in their lives.

She helps people strengthen their connections, navigate divorce with more peace, and find joy in dating again, because you know what? That is possible.

She's worked as a therapist for over 20 years. Simply put, Susan knows how to help people create happier, healthier relationships and lives. Welcome, Susan.

Susan Trotter (: 02:17

Well, thank you so much, Tania. I'm so happy to be here.

Tania Leichliter (: 02:20

I've just learned so much from you in the short amount of time that we've known each other. You have helped so many people, not only in this divorce process, but also in rebuilding their lives and building healthier relationships, and drawing some awareness on what is possible in their lives moving forward.

Susan Trotter (: 02:38

Yeah, absolutely. One of the things I talk with people who are still going through divorce is how important it is to start thinking about your post-divorce life before you get there. Thinking about not just financially, what are your needs and goals, but also emotionally, socially, every which way. What do you want that future to look like, and what can you do now to start to set yourself up to thrive in your life after divorce? And of course, that includes dating and relationships.

Tania Leichliter (: 03:07

I love that because some of the work that I do too is getting clarity on the outcome that you want, because every single thing that you do during that divorce process is gonna lead to a specific outcome. And if you don't have clarity around what you want that outcome to be, then a lot of things can get derailed

And part of that is about wanting to have a healthy romantic relationship moving forward. Not everybody has that desire. Some people I've talked to they're like, yeah, I'm swearing off that other sex, but so many other people really do want to feel that love again.

Susan Trotter (: 03:43

Yeah, absolutely. And people go through it in different ways, right? Timing varies from person to person. Some people feel really ready soon after, well, sometimes before their divorce is final, sometimes soon after, and sometimes people take much more time, depending on what their experiences have been. I generally suggest that people take some time between when their divorce is final.

And before they start dating. No judgment, only because it is a process and you can't always know what it's gonna feel like until you're on the other side of that divorce. I also think there's value in taking time to reflect on your past experiences, including your marriage, to give thought to what worked and what didn't.

What you want and need now, especially for those coming out of long-term marriages, what your needs and wants post-divorce are going to be in a relationship, are likely pretty different from what you wanted and needed when you got married. And then to just give thought to kind of what your part has been in past dynamics, and evaluating whether or not those parts or those roles that you played.

Served you well or not? And to the extent that they didn't, people might want to do some work around that as well, because it'll set them up for happier, healthier relationships.

Tania Leichliter (: 05:05

I totally agree. And I reflect back on my own life, because I actually started dating before I got reflective, I think about, well, why? And that's the title of this podcast today: Don't date for the wrong reasons. And so I think about, well, why did I want to date?

Susan Trotter (: 05:21

Right.

Tania Leichliter (: 05:28

So early. And I think that I had a different intention when I started dating. I really just wanted to meet some new people, expand my social circle. I love to be active. And I just felt that what I needed in the moment was to meet some new people outside of my community, because my community was so entrenched in my couple life.

Susan Trotter (: 05:50

Mm-hmm.

Tania Leichliter (: 05:55

That I didn't really go out there to shop for love, I was very clear with individuals that I went on dates with what my intention was. And if they really were looking for that lifelong partner in that moment, I'm not ready for that, so I was clear. What are your thoughts about that?

Susan Trotter (: 06:18

So I love that actually. One of the things I also really encourage is that people be clear with themselves and then with the people they might meet to date about where they are and what they want. Again, no judgment. People can want anything from one-night stands to a long-term committed relationship and maybe marriage. People can want whatever they want. It's just important that you

have that clarity for yourself, and that you convey that. The part about conveying that to other people is so that they can then make an informed decision about whether or not that works for them. I hear lots of complaints, people say they want a relationship, and then they don't behave in a way that backs that up. And so, you know, if people don't want a relationship, a serious love commitment, that's totally fine. I appreciate that you were

clear about it for yourself, like why you wanted to start dating then, what you wanted to get from that, and you communicated that to the people you went out with. So then they get to make the choice whether or not that works for them.

Tania Leichliter (: 07:22

Yeah. And I, you know, I ended up

meeting somebody and having a long-term relationship. And I wouldn't trade it for the world. Like it was so...

Susan Trotter (: 07:27

Yeah.

Tania Leichliter (: 07:31

To me at that time, I got out of it what I wanted to. And I felt like I had all these new experiences, life experiences. So it goes back to what you value. Don't you think, Susan? Like, I look at the way that I love, and I look at the way that I give love, like what I want and to receive, and what I like to give. And life experiences are, for me, the top thing. So just meeting somebody that matched in that kind of what I

Susan Trotter (: 07:37

Mm-hmm.

Tania Leichliter (: 08:00

valued and having that experience, I would not trade it for the world. And we're still friends. And I have an uncanny ability to be friends. Like, that's why I had an amicable divorce. And that's why I'm friends with all my old boyfriends. Like, I just have a very uncanny opportunity, or way of being able to say like, yeah, this is not perfect. And it's not where I want to like, you know, park my car. But at the end of the day, like, I'm happy to

Susan Trotter (: 08:05

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Tania Leichliter (: 08:26

continue to kind of go on vacation, if that makes sense. Because you shared some really good experiences, and as long as you're not ending with two people who are really hurting one another, know, relationships come in all different forms, don't you think?

Susan Trotter (: 08:29

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Right.

They do, and every experience has things that you can learn from, right? About yourself, about what you want, about relationships. And I think for people coming out of divorce, there's so much to learn about yourself, to reconnect with yourself as an individual, who are you outside of that relationship? Who are you as a single person? You know, not in all these other roles that we tend to carry in our lives.

And yeah, every experience has lessons for us that we can then bring into our future relationships or our future experiences as well. And like you, I tend to stay friends with exes as well. It's a shared experience, and sometimes it doesn't work out for one reason or another, but when people are kind and respectful and loving toward each other, sometimes you can stay friends. Although I do think you usually need to have some space apart before you can actually truly become friends, when a relationship ends. But that's another conversation.

Tania Leichliter (: 09:44

Yeah,

No, definitely. Definitely. I mean, I think that I came from amicable divorces in my life. My parents are really amicable. Like you said, it probably wasn't the case right away, but they shared a co-parenting responsibility. They worked well as a team. Actually, one of my earlier podcasts was with my stepmother, Pam, so if everybody wants to listen to that podcast,

Susan Trotter (: 09:50

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Mm.

Yeah.

Tania Leichliter (: 10:09

You know, she came into my life when I was around 10 years old, and she befriended my mother in such a beautiful way. And she stayed in her lane. But my mother really leaned on her to help communicate with my dad in an effective way, in a productive way, and allowed him to be a better co-parent. And they really, you know, created a really amazing bond, my stepmom and my mother. So when you have that as a model,

Susan Trotter (: 10:18

Mmm.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Mm.

Tania Leichliter (: 10:36

You know, it's amazing. And to be honest, my mother had an affair. So you would think that like my dad would have bitterness and resentfulness and then he would bitch and moan about, you know, my mother to my stepmom, but that's just not actually what happened. And, you know,

Susan Trotter (: 10:37

Right?

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Tania Leichliter (: 10:55

With so many people who are struggling with infidelity, right, Susan? And so many, one person has had an affair, the other person just feels so betrayed, can't seem to move their suggestion. How, from a relationship perspective, if you have been subject to betrayal, how do you regain trust?

Susan Trotter (: 11:18

Mm-hmm.

Tania Leichliter (: 11:19

And the second piece of that is that if you... How do you then refocus on your sense of self? Because I find that lots of people become victims of the circumstance and they blame the other person how which gives them all the power, giving that other person power over their emotions. So I do a lot of mindset work with clients, but I still think that there's this feeling of distrust. Like how anyone again.

Susan Trotter (: 11:47

Yeah. So I, like you, do a lot of mindset work around the same, same topic, right? We can't control what other people do. We can control how we respond. You know, and where, where do you want the power to go? Right? Like if you allow the betrayal and the mistrust to drive how you feel and the choices you make going forward, then you're giving power to it and not taking it back for yourself. And it's not about

power over another person. I know you know that it's about taking back your power so that you can move forward in a confident way. How people move through betrayal. I think before people start dating, it's important to do some individual work to process the grief and loss and the betrayal. It doesn't mean you have to have it all.

worked out or figured out before you start dating, but I do think there's some value in taking a little bit of time to do a little bit of that work. And then when you start dating, if you've been betrayed in that way, when you start dating or you get into a relationship, it is likely that issues are going to come up. Things will get triggered because when we are dating and in relationships, it serves as a kind of mirror for us, right? It reflects things back.

to us and highlights things that we may not be aware of, or we may need to still do some work on. So things are gonna come up and what is really important, ideally if you're in a relationship, having a partner that understands and is going to be sensitive to those issues and not intentionally or inadvertently trigger them, but really being aware, as self-aware as you can, of when those issues come up and being able to

to talk it through rather than just acting from those places of hurt and betrayal. It comes back to that intentionality, right? Like when you're more aware of what your issues are, then you can pause and think about what's going on and then talk about it rather than just, I don't know, get angry or burst into tears at something that happened and not even know exactly why you're having that reaction.

Tania Leichliter (: 13:57

Yeah, I completely agree with all of that. And like so much of the intentional work is important. And the communication, I know that both of us do a lot on the communication side. I'm actually doing this in my support group this week, how to communicate to get what you want in divorce, but it's really beyond divorce. It's about your communication style.

in a way that doesn't feel combative or threatening feeling like an individual is getting attacked. It's about your language to still get the outcome that you're looking for, but yet not make it sound like you are, you know, beating somebody up, right? So many times in our marriages, we slip into this kind of very combative

threatening, attacking, patient style, which then just makes us feel like we're walking on eggshells, right? Nobody wants that moving forward, and just learning those specific words. So when you work with clients on...

Susan Trotter (: 14:51

Mm-hmm.

Tania Leichliter (: 15:08

How to have a more productive communication style, moving into what I'm calling take two. What are some of the key elements that you talk about so they don't go back into those bad habits, which potentially could have caused some of those irreconcilable differences?

Susan Trotter (: 15:26

Right, right. Yeah. You know, language is so powerful, right? The words that we use about ourselves and other people, and with other people. So I really encourage people to pay attention to the words that they choose to use because words matter. But really understanding what your communication style is, taking some time to research or to work with somebody, and understand that. You know, we certainly know

paying attention to using the use of I statements, you rather than saying you do blankety blank, you might say, you know, I feel like this when you do blank. So you're owning your experience of it, rather than just pointing the finger. You know, some of the language that I use, there's a difference between

saying, you always do blank, right? And words like always and never just automatically back the other person into a corner, and then there's no room to move. And so just being mindful of not using words like always and never and trying to catch yourself when you do that, even if you start to do that, say, wait a minute, it's not always, you know, sometimes you do this, and when that happens, I feel blank.

And it just, the goal is understanding. That's the thing I remind people of. Your goal in communicating, whether it's you know, what to have for dinner or to address conflict, is to get to a place of understanding. You don't even have to agree 100%. I mean, you might have to agree on the restaurant you're gonna go to, or else you're gonna be eating separately. But.

You know, if there's a larger issue, you don't have to totally agree with each other. What's important, though, is that you understand where the other person is at. Because that understanding is part of what's going to contribute to greater connection, greater intimacy, and help you move through those things. The other thing I talk about with people that's important is looking for opportunities to add to what I call the bucket of goodwill.

because if you're operating in a deficit, you know, where there's just lots of fighting and there's no kind of positive shared experiences, whether it's in communication or getting out in the world, then you're operating from a deficit. And when you then have conflict, you have no foundation that's going to help you, nothing to draw from. And so, looking for opportunities in your everyday life, in those small moments of your everyday relationship.

That you can do that will add to that bucket of goodness that then serves as a foundation to help you when things get challenging.

Tania Leichliter (: 18:00

And I love the bucket. I think that's so important. And even in my divorce relationship with my ex, I take a lot of time to express gratitude for the good. I recognize all the things that he's doing well. communicate it. So deserve to feel like it, what they're doing is being recognized. So, how I normally will communicate and teach people to communicate is that, don't just point out all the bad things that you didn't pick the kids up on time, or you didn't feed them the right meal, or they came home with dirty clothes. What about all the great things?

You know, Sally came home, and she told me that she had such a good time. You guys went and played miniature golf, and then you guys went and got ice cream. really appreciate you taking the time to create such a great day for her. She just seemed like she was elated when she came. And then, you can say, but I did notice that she had bug bites all over, maybe I might want to remind her to on some bug spray.

It's how you frame it because nobody wants to feel threatened, and you come forward with threats and attacks. You know what's going to come back at you? Threats and attacks.

Susan Trotter (: 19:19

Absolutely,

And what we know from research is that positive reinforcement is the most powerful kind of reinforcement. So if you want more of the good-be-good behavior from your ex, let's say, or your children, or anybody, you want to lead with positive reinforcement. Negative reinforcement and punishment are not as powerful.

And unfortunately, in divorce and post-divorce, many people tend to lead with those things and then wonder why they're not getting a better response. So 100 % leading with the positive. It is also a reminder that where you put your attention matters. If you focus on the positives generally, you're more likely to get more of that. And of course, the alternative is true as well.

Tania Leichliter (: 20:07

So I'm going to use the buzzword of the century right now because I think we should use it. And I want to talk about narcissism. And I personally think it's an overused word because I think everybody in the world is a little bit narcissistic, because obviously we hold ourselves to some level of regard, and you need to put yourself first. But I do hear so many people saying, I can't communicate like that.

because they're just

And now on the flip side, they feel very damaged in terms of wanting another relationship and worried that they're going to be attracted to the same person. But at the same time, they're also just struggling with this communication technique because no matter what they try.

Even active listening, we've talked about, the trying to remove the nevers and always, the dealing with trying to create gratitude and support, as well as feedback. But they just feel like they're slamming their heads against the wall. How might you solve for that?

Susan Trotter (: 21:15

Yeah, there are a few different things in what you just said. First of all, narcissism is a continuum. There's healthy narcissism, which hopefully most of us have, and then there's more pathological narcissism. And what we're talking about here really is the pathological end of that spectrum. So there are two pieces. One is how do you deal with a spouse or an ex-spouse who is on the more extreme end of the narcissistic spectrum?

You know, one of the things that is really important is to, first of all, recognize what kind of what you're dealing with. There's a lot of value to using there's different frameworks for it. Some people call it gray rocking. There's also a psychologist, Bill Eddy, who developed an approach called the BIF method, B I F F, which stands for brief, informative, friendly, and firm.

which is a really, really great framework for communicating with a narcissistic ex and co-parent, which is often the challenge that people are having post-divorce. And so it's really just paying attention to how you communicate. It's screening out the noise.

Let's say you ignore the vitriol to screen it out. It's just noise. The thing is that people have a choice. We talked about this earlier, right? They have a choice about how to respond. So you can respond in a way that spirals things up even more, or you can respond in a different way, in a more mature way, and a way that actually serves you better. Not that.

How they're communicating is okay, I'm not condoning it, but to engage with them around it doesn't serve you well in any way. It's just gonna spiral things up, it's gonna leave you feeling bad, it's gonna leave you exhausted, it's gonna keep it going. So ignore that, just stay focused on the issue at hand, which is your child's schedule, and call it a day. You will feel better.

So that's one piece. The other piece is for people coming out of that and starting to date, how do you make sure that you avoid getting into another relationship with somebody who tends to be narcissistic? Because we know history tends to repeat itself, right? That's why the divorce rate goes up. People keep repeating patterns. So that's, again, where it becomes important to do your work.

It can be helpful if you've been in that situation to work with a coach who specializes in dating and relationships to help you recognize those patterns. know, especially coming out of divorce, you know, people who tend to be narcissistic can be very charming and ego-gratifying initially. And if you're coming out of a challenging divorce or any divorce, right?

Self-esteem tends to take a hit; it can be pretty heady to get that kind of attention. And it's important to recognize when it's kind of appropriate, healthy attention and when it's veering more toward the love bombing that we often see with people who are more narcissistic, because that's going to blow up at some point. The reason it's called love bombing.

Tania Leichliter (: 24:12

funny thought about the love bombing because you're right. It feels neglected relationship for many years with zero feedback loop. And then you get into a dating environment where all of a sudden you're, center of somebody's life and world, and they're doing all these amazing things.

Yeah, how do I know if that's healthy? You know, maybe this person's a true romantic and they literally love doing this. What did their past relationship look like? What was their irreconcilable difference in terms of what broke down? Was there neglect there as well? how...

Does that individual deal with fights? And I have seen, time after time, people who are subject to the love bombing, and it feels

when it's happening, and then it feels so bad when it ends,

You know, it's hard to tell, right?

Susan Trotter (: 25:05

The thing, though, there's a difference between somebody who's just like loves love, right? Is truly romantic and somebody who's a love bomber. The thing is, is that no matter how connected you feel right out of the gate, it takes time to get to know somebody. It's behavior over time that tells us who somebody is. And you just can't know who somebody truly is right out of the gate. You just can't. So I coach my clients to

Be present and engage and have fun and enjoy dating, and keep a little part of yourself separated as an observer. Pay attention. Everything is information, and you want to pay attention to the information that people are giving you from the get-go, and decide what it tells you, and over time, because it is only over time.

That we get to see consistency. We get to see how people deal with conflict, how they approach intimacy, what their attachment stuff is, and how they truly parent. Anybody can say they're a good parent. What happens when their child is having a tantrum while you're at dinner together, right? It is all the information for you. And over time, the person who really is romantic and loves love is gonna be consistent.

And that's gonna reveal itself. And the person who's just love bombing you and is more narcissistic over time is gonna reveal themselves as well. You have to pay attention.

Tania Leichliter (: 26:32

Yeah. mean, I think that sometimes what I see is that people begin to really pay over-attention and they begin to they're worried constantly. attachment style, you know, it can be all-encompassing because

They're not trusting

Susan Trotter (: 26:50

Right.

Tania Leichliter (: 26:50

their ability to observe. because they just came out of a divorce, So they're thinking to themselves, I don't trust myself. I don't trust my ability to be able to read someone's character. You know, how as coaches can we really help them?

figure out how to trust themselves. I talk about relationships in kind of three different circles. The passion circle, the partnership circle, and then the playmate circle. And the number of those circles is all overlapping, and that can be your togetherness, but it's

important to have the freedom to build up your own independence so you don't have to be fully reliant on that other person for playmate or for partnership, I truly believe that that's how we get out of this cycle, That's how we get people to trust themselves because they too

like being with themselves and loving themselves, and being a playmate with themselves. Learning how to be alone, being alone doesn't have to mean being lonely, right?

Susan Trotter (: 27:50

Right.

Yeah.

Right, absolutely. Well, that's such an important piece. One, learning to trust yourself, your own judgment again, after divorce or after any relationship ends. Creating what I call a full, joyful life for ourselves is a really good place from which to date because it allows you to then be really selective and really intentional about who you invite in. And then you can invite people in who really enhance your life and aren't just

filling voids. It's okay to want a relationship. It's okay to want, you know, companionship. There's nothing wrong with that. Most of us are relational. But you want to be intentional and you want to be selective. And if you're not doing what you described, you know, learning to be comfortable on your own, creating a full life for yourself, then, then you may be choosing.

to invite people in for reasons that actually don't serve you as well. And that can make you miss signs of things sometimes, too. But I also agree with you that part about people sometimes erring on that other end of the spectrum and overthinking things, right? And that's the other challenge. And so it's important to find that balance of being present, enjoying what you have, and still paying attention.

to make sure that the person is who they say they are over time, and whether there's compatibility and shared values, and all the things that make for a good relationship.

Tania Leichliter (: 29:24

I do a program that is kind of like a 90-day dating. So being able to find someone if you're dating and you've met somebody, being very intentional with the first 90 days. Sure, like you said, you're collecting information. Well, part of that collecting of information is being okay with just asking some questions and being able to answer and sharing those things that...

might be a little bit more vulnerable than what you may have been accustomed to dating, because I think so many marriages do break down because of a misalignment of values and the way that...

They look at life, whether it is, you know, do they have an optimistic or pessimistic narrative? How do they look at finances? How do they manage money? Like you said, what are the other relationships in their life? What do they look like? Not just their children, their coworkers, their friends, you know, being able to do that, but being able to communicate that to one, you don't have to be the same, but you have to be able to

Susan Trotter (: 30:11

Right.

Tania Leichliter (: 30:33

I would say just value each other's differences and embrace them. I know that in my own marriage, we struggled with being aligned in some of those different areas, and we weren't great about talking about it, more like we just couldn't see each other's side, right?

Susan Trotter (: 30:52

Yeah.

Tania Leichliter (: 30:53

And I think that that's a big struggle. And I've done a lot of work on this over the last few I've had to dive into understanding communication techniques and going through the coaching process and learning how to be a life coach. And it allowed me to then do a deep dive on my own. I don't want to repeat that again.

Susan Trotter (: 31:14

Right.

Tania Leichliter (: 31:14

so

You and I both believe that you can't just believe that you're going to be able to change that chapter and not you know ⁓

Susan Trotter (: 31:22

Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Take some

It takes work, reflection, and effort and and it's a process. Absolutely. And you don't have to have it all figured out before you start dating. What's important is being open to the process and recognizing that there are things that are going to come up that will require some pause and reflection and some working through so that you don't repeat the patterns that weren't good for you before.

Tania Leichliter (: 31:26

Thanks.

Susan Trotter (: 31:49

Absolutely.

Tania Leichliter (: 31:50

So we are kind of going to be wrapping up because you and I have covered so many amazing things like to talk about kind of three important things that I have pulled from the conversation. And you and I align on so many things, which is, I think, the first thing about dating intentionally that you and I have discussed is getting clarity around what you want.

So you had said very early on in this podcast interview about the fact that even before you are done with your divorce, being able to evaluate your intentions around what you want your future to look like, and getting clarity around that. So in your divorce process, you are communicating and able to navigate with that clarity so you don't act, react, or behave in certain ways that aren't going to get you that outcome, have a vision for your brighter future.

It's really imperative in the divorce process that you stay aligned with yourself. So that is number one. Number two is just about the fact that

making sure you're not trying to fill a void in dating, that you're beginning to date intentionally, and that you are observing as you go. So, each piece of information that you're bringing in from somebody that you're dating, it's almost like it's being filed in a way.

Allow you to recognize this is a repeat behavior? Is this something that's familiar to me that might feel good in the moment? But I know it could flip pretty quickly, and being able to really make sure you're looking and evaluating those signs, and what we didn't talk about is actually pulling out a journal and making sure you're tracking some of the things that you know might be things that you're not trusting yourself about.

So, making sure that you're writing those things down, evaluating them, thinking through what does this actually mean that this action has happened? Is it very similar to what I was dealing with in the past, and having that recognition? Because again, we don't want to end up in the same kind of narcissistic relationship as before, because we know that those don't end in a warm and fuzzy way.

And the last piece of it is just kind of regaining that sense of self. Both of us have agreed on the fact that you don't want to rush into things if you haven't done the work on yourself, because you have to do the hard work. And it's not just about talking to somebody.

It's about learning and writing and journaling and doing mindset mastery type work, understanding how to manage your mindset. It is going to be so important that you do that as you move forward in your dating process, because you're not going to get all of this from somebody else. If you're out there trying to fill

Susan Trotter (: 34:41

Mm-hmm.

Tania Leichliter (: 34:53

void. The void's never going to be filled unless you fill it with your own self.

⁓ And it goes back to those three kinds of circles and making sure that anyone you're dating, you have togetherness, but you have independence too. And maybe you have been in a codependent relationship in your past, but that doesn't mean you can't learn how to be different in the future and create a really strong sense of self. Because if you're confident, if you have self-compassion, if you know how to love yourself, you will end up being better.

Susan Trotter (: 34:59

Okay.

Tania Leichliter (: 35:26

In a relationship, you can show up for yourself versus only for somebody else. So, I know I kind of added some things into that, but it was more of an interpretation of our conversation and how people can take that moving forward. So, Susan, I really appreciate everything that you have brought to the table today. Susan's information is all going to be in the show notes. in the transcript, you can pull

Susan Trotter (: 35:31

Mm-hmm.

Tania Leichliter (: 35:52

The transcript and be able to read all about Susan. And Susan, can you let everybody know how they can find you?

Susan Trotter (: 35:58

Sure, thank you. Yes, so you can find me on any of the social media platforms at Susan Trotter PhD. You can email me at susantrotterphd.gmail.com and my website is also susantrotterphd.com. So, makes it very easy. And I offer a free consultation. People can reach out anytime. I'm always happy to connect and talk and just see how I can be helpful to them.

So, thank you so much for having me today.

Tania Leichliter (: 36:25

That is great, Susan. Thank you again. And just for everybody else to remember, at betterthanbetter.coach, we have an incredible support group that people can join. And not only with that support group comes a community of people who are like-minded and who are going through this process, but we have an amazing library of resources for you, webinars, courses.

articles and this specific podcast in video format, you can find in our membership, and you can also find it on YouTube. So again, Susan, thanks so much for your time, and we'll have to come up with another topic and we'll bring it back to our Better Than Bitter podcast community. Thanks again, Susan.

Susan Trotter (: 37:09

Thank you, Tania.

Tania Leichliter (: 37:09

Thanks for tuning in to Better Than Bitter, navigating an amicable divorce. Whether you are at the beginning of your divorce journey, midway through, or even done, we want the stories from our guests to give you hope that an amicable resolution is possible. If you'd like to dive deeper into today's episode, check out our show notes for a full transcript, reflections, and links to learn more about Better Than Bitter's coaching courses.

and how to connect with our fabulous guests. If you're ready for more support, you can head over to betterthanbitter.coach. Daily, you'll find details and additional information on our five-step game plan multimedia course, our one-to-one Zoom coaching, group coaching, monthly memberships, events and retreats, and a whole lot more. Plus, we've got a ton of free resources, like our monthly newsletter,

our private Facebook group, Instagram channel, and a library of articles and free webinars to help you along the way. When you go to our website, you'll be able to schedule a free 45-minute breakthrough call. Remember, we're here to help you reach an amicable resolution. Find your courage and believe in your brighter future because you know what? It is possible.

At Better Than Bitter, we measure success by what we give and not by what we get. So let's change the divorce dialogue together. It's time to be better than bitter.