Introduction (: 00:06

Welcome to the Better Than Bitter Divorce Podcast, where we flip the script on divorce and show you how to have a more amicable divorce resolution. I'm your host, Tania Leichliter a divorce coach, a certified life coach, and the mastermind behind the Better Than Bitter five-step game plan course, where I help individuals build a pathway towards a more amicable divorce resolution.

Each week, I'll bring you uplifting stories from people who've successfully experienced amicable separations, proving that divorce doesn't have to be a battleground. Whether you're overwhelmed with grief, struggling with custody and co-parenting, or just dealing with a high-conflict individual, this podcast is here to guide you towards reclaiming your life and being what I know is possible, better than bitter.

Tania Leichliter (: 01:21

Welcome to the Better Than Bitter Podcast, episode number 44. Today, we are speaking about nesting.

I was very fortunate to reconnect with one of my really good friends from my past. And it turns out we ended up getting divorced around the same time. And unbeknownst to us, both of us ended up nesting. Not only did we nest, but we nested very successfully.

We're trying to make sure that the message that's getting across to all of you is that you can try nesting and how great it can be for your children. I am very happy that my friend decided to come on and share her story. So welcome.

Guest (: 01:57

Hi, Tania

Tania Leichliter (: 01:58

I so appreciate you wanting to share. I couldn't believe it when you and I reconnected. And then we both started talking about our stories, and you're like, yeah, well, we nested for about a year, right? And you know, it's just, it's really unusual.

Guest (: 02:09

Yeah, one year.

Tania Leichliter (: 02:13

To find people whom you know who are doing this. it's pretty widespread, and I've interviewed other people who have done it on the podcast, I was so excited to hear that you guys had had such a successful journey.

A lot of people don't really know what to do at the very beginning. You decide to separate. You're living under the same roof. And what I teach people is that things come in stages. So there are multiple transitions. When you're living under the same roof and separated. Then one when you're

separated, nesting as that next transition. And then the next one for you is that you ended up living apart, and your kids went back and forth. So if you don't mind sharing a bit of your story and your journey, I think it'd be really helpful to our audience.

Guest (: 02:58

Yeah, absolutely. I'm happy to share because I do think it was one of the things we did in a very healthy way, and it was so good for our kids. But actually, I'd never heard of it before, and when I talked on the phone initially with the mediator who handled the art of war, she suggested nesting, and I asked her about it.

And the concept sounded ideal to me because I couldn't wrap my mind around being with my kids every day, especially in the beginning, you know, I think for a lot of people, the kids are one reason people actually end up staying in their marriage and not getting divorced. So for me, just the appeal of having my kids stay at our family home and me doing the moving and my ex doing the moving, it just made sense going back and forth and having our kids stay put.

It really resonated as a very healthy thing to do to get them adjusted. And the mediator had mentioned that too. She said, basically, your kids are going to adjust. They need time to adjust to it. And I actually found that to be true by the time the year was up, and we actually started moving the kids back and forth. They handled it like rock stars, but I attribute that to the fact that we had that year of transition.

Tania Leichliter (: 04:19

Now, did you spend some time living under the same roof?

Guest (: 04:23

Yeah, we, for a couple of months, were obviously working on things for a long time. And then once we made the call to get separated, I think there were still three months we were still in the same family home before we started the nesting.

Tania Leichliter (: 04:41

And did you tell the kids right when you decided, and then you lived under the same roof for three months after, or did you live under the same roof once you decided you were separating, tell that you told the kids, and then quickly you guys started nesting? What was your kind of transition plan?

Guest (: 04:59

Yeah, remember we made the decision in the fall, and we didn't tell the kids quite yet because the holidays were coming up, and we didn't want them to worry over the holidays. We actually took a family vacation to Maui after we decided this. And then we told the kids, shortly after the holidays.

Tania Leichliter (: 05:16

So you really had a plan in place, you decided in the fall, you lived in the same home, but your kids did not know for three months. You went on your family break. And then when you came back, did you already have that apartment already rented, and that it kind of happened pretty quickly that you would move back and forth?

Guest (: 05:34

Yeah, we had actually gotten that place in October or something of that year that we decided. That was when we were still working on things. We hadn't made the call yet. But I think looking back on all that, I think we both kind of knew. And maybe not consciously, but I think we both knew.

We had already gotten the condo, and the kids came with us to look at it. And so nothing was like this huge shock. Also, it was the pandemic, so, it was a weird situation when we were going through our marriage counseling and all that. We were all home together. So the kids, even though behind closed doors,

They knew our situation was very unique in that I don't think our kids were blindsided by any of this. I think we're both very open people. Like we've never been those people who put up a wall around the kids. We're super authentic with our kids. So they kind of knew even before we told them, I think.

It all went down pretty smoothly. We also tried to incorporate them into the condo. Our kids helped us pick out furniture, so it wasn't like it was some place they were excluded from, if we wanted to, to have the kids over there for dinner or whatever. When it was our night over, there were times when the kids went over there. So I highly whole transparency.

Tania Leichliter (: 07:02

That's so interesting because, thinking reflectively on when we got the apartment, we also have the kids, who tried to help us move in. But our kids didn't have an interest in it, if that makes sense. They just didn't.

Guest (: 07:16

Yeah.

Tania Leichliter (: 07:18

We had already told them that we were going to nest and that they weren't going to be there. And so they're like, great, we don't want to be there. I mean, over time, you know, there was a gym in the complex that there was, you know, other amenities, like a golf simulator, like there were really fun things, a pool. So I think over time, the kids started utilizing the facility.

Guest (: 07:25

You

Yeah.

Tania Leichliter (: 07:41

but never really had an interest in the apartment itself. And we lived under the same roof for nine months.

We ended up saying that we were not going to make any housing changes. Dad was just going to live downstairs because we had space to have a separate pension of space. And so the kids just had dad downstairs and mom upstairs. But we started a parenting plan as we were still in the same house. So we did an on-and-off duty day. So just the same two, two, three that we do today.

Guest (: 07:55

Right.

Tania Leichliter (: 08:13

You know, I had the kids on Mondays and Tuesdays, and he had the kids on Wednesdays and Thursdays, and then we alternated the weekend. Again, we were still sleeping in the same house, but we had an on-and-off duty schedule. That worked really well. So, you know, we could go out, it could be with friends. We could, you know, I joined a running club. We could just, and then if we were all together, we just made it a point to be clear that, like, hey, we're gonna do a family dinner night tonight, and we made sure preemptively that we would let them know a couple of days in advance that we were going to do that. They felt that the time felt uncomfortable to them.

You know, thinking back at it. They liked us not sharing those times. Although now we have family dinners all the time now that we're divorced, know, birthdays, holidays, even just some random days, because we're still nesting. It's been three years, and we're still nesting. And so every once in a while, you know, be like, hey, I'm cooking ribs. I know you're...

Guest (: 09:08

Wow.

Ha ha

ha!

Tania Leichliter (: 09:15

You know, you're coming in tonight at 8.30, but if you want to come to dinner, we've got plenty. And so sometimes... ⁓

Guest (: 09:21

Your cooking is delicious, Tania. I mean, I think to your point though, you have to be flexible and adjust as you go along sometimes. Like, there's no rule that you can't change it up if it's not working out. And every kid is different. Every parent is different. Every financial situation is different. So you just have to be smart about doing what makes the most sense for your particular circumstances.

Tania Leichliter (: 09:48

So let's talk about finances. You and I had a discussion as we were leading into the recording today, and we talked about finances. And one of the biggest things that I hear with my clients is like, we can't afford to nest.

And what I say to them is, well, why? Because you need to get to two places anyway. If you're going to have your kid going back and forth, that means you're going to need to have space for them in a different place. So there is no difference in price. Can you talk about your thoughts around that, and if you felt like that is actually true?

Guest (: 10:22

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great point. The finances, if you're gonna move out and not stay in the same house, I mean, you need a place, and you need a place with a room for the kids. So in our situation, we were just willing to have us do the moving. I think for me, that was the big thing is I would rather...

In the beginning, I would rather me do the moving back and forth and my ex do the moving back and forth, than put our kids through that right away. Cause it is an adjustment, and yeah, financially, like you said, you're going to have to pull the trigger anyway to get a separate household. So you might as well pick somewhere that's, you know, where you can set up this nesting situation.

Tania Leichliter (: 11:09

I know I refer to that television show, Undercover Boss. And show, the boss has to be the worker bee, and the boss has to take on the role and the jobs of the people who work for them. And I always say to parents that are having an expectation that their kids are gonna go back and forth without having

anxiety it just it's a really hard change if they don't experience what it feels like to be what I call the traveler I said you can't have any conditions that you are setting for your kids because it is hard it is so hard to be packing a suitcase every two days every three days I mean some people nest and do one week on one week off

And it kind of ends up that way on a two, two, three anyway, because it's really a two, five. But don't you believe that if you haven't done it, then you can't have any expectations that your kids are going to do it well.

Guest (: 11:59

Yeah.

Sure, 100 % and I kind of feel like the kids, you know, the kids didn't make this decision, we made this decision. And so in my mind, it was honestly a no-brainer because in my mind, I was like, well, they didn't ask for this, and so why would I then have them do that? Like you said, if done correctly, like packing, it's kind of an art. Get used to it, and you get better at it.

But again, like you said, undercover boss, it always helps when you're walking in someone's shoes, right? It gives you more empathy, it gives you more knowledge. And so, exactly, I was happy to kind of figure out some tips and tricks. And we, by the time the kids actually started moving back and forth to our houses, we had already set up like two toothbrushes, one in each house.

You know, two sets of whatever toiletries just to make it easier. So if they like, you know, didn't have to pack the whole kitchen sink, was just like through stuff in a duffel. And so all the staples are at both houses. And of course, like once in a while, they forget something, but we tried to, we tried to practice. It's like I said, it's kind of an art. You get better at it. So that by the time they started actually

making that move back and forth and packing for dads or packing for moms. We were pretty good at it. And I think now, like we still forget things every now and then, but we live close enough that it's no big deal.

Tania Leichliter (: 13:38

So let's talk about boundaries in the nesting home, because this is also a topic that people ask about. So in the home, in the nesting home, did you all have your own bedroom, own bathrooms, or did you share those spaces?

Guest (: 13:54

Yeah, so we were very fortunate in that we each had our own bedroom and bathroom. That was a question that a lot of my friends asked me, like, are you gonna sleep in the same bed at the condo? But again, like feel very fortunate that we were able to each have our own space. So I just never went in there. Like, I never went into his bedroom or bathroom. Just like you said for boundaries, like we just have that respect.

And I think we both did a good job. You know, we didn't have as clear conversations about this as you and your ex did, but we definitely tried to keep it clean and keep our end of the bargain in terms of just being a respectful person living in that space, knowing that you're not the only one.

⁓ So it was never an issue with us. Again, I think it was easier for us because we did have our own bedroom and bathroom. But in terms of the kitchen and all that, like I think there was one conversation maybe, but it wasn't about our nesting home. It was about our family home. Like I, I think we had one conversation about, listen, you need to go to the grocery store too. Like.

I'm not the only one who's going to the grocery store and stocking the fridge at our family home. I think that was the more, that was one, which was more important for our boundaries, almost was our family home, because I didn't want to feel like I was the only one contributing to cooking and cleaning, and grocery shopping at our family home. At the condo, it was much easier because there were no kids, right? I mean,

Feeding my two children is a huge undertaking because they're so hungry all the time. But just when it was just us at the condo, that actually wasn't the problem. The conversation was regarding, like, we need to divide it up more equally when it comes to like the house that our kids are living in, if that makes sense.

Tania Leichliter (: 15:51

Yeah, we had discussions around both homes. So we had a pretty strict set of rules in the apartment. You left it like an Airbnb. There would be food staples in the fridge that we would share costs on, whether it be eggs and whatever.

milk and you know some things in the dry good container like we could we just shared some of those staples and then you always left that the house just like you would walk into an airbnb so everything was always clean the garbage was out you know you quick wipe down of all the counters make sure everything is put away and like you we each had our own rooms and therefore i never walked into his room he never walked into mine we each had our own

bathrooms. So we were just sharing that common space. In terms of the family home, we had rules around that, too. And by the way, both of us started dating while we were in the apartment. And therefore, the apartment, we could have the people we were dating over.

But as it related to the family home, it wasn't a place to entertain anybody we were dating. So the only place that those individuals were allowed to come from an overnight perspective was the apartment. In terms of the family home, they could come over.

infrequently stop in, know, maybe say hi to kids if they knew them, kind of thing, very briefly, but it was never any, the family home was pretty sacred. So we, terms, same thing, yeah, same thing. And people are like, I don't know, I don't know how you could do that.

Guest (: 17:17

Yeah, same.

Yeah, same exact thing.

Yeah, well, it's like, well, you're not going to bring you're not going to bring the person you're newly dating over to your family home. Like you said, that word sacred. Like, this is a family thing. And if they want to come to the apartment or the condo where you're nesting, OK, with respect, with boundaries.

Tania Leichliter (: 17:43

Yeah. And I think that as it relates to setting up rules for the house, you know,

Everything, all the dishes had to be put in the dishwasher. The dishwasher had to be started. The kitchen had to be clean. Food that is being used is kind of like for the next day. So if, like our kids had like the standard breakfasts that they'd eat every day, just needed to make sure all that food was in the fridge for the next day when that person with a turnover day, because they didn't want to open the fridge in the morning and not have whatever the kids wanted.

That day, right? So we tried to make sure that the kitchen was, you know, fairly stocked with the staple items before we left. All the garbage had to get taken out. So, and then just things needed to be straightened up. Obviously, the family home was not as clean as the apartment, but again, I didn't want to arrive and see an entire sink full of dishes and the garbage not being taken out, and the counters not wiped down. Like it just kind of

would have been disrespectful, right? So ⁓ we did have conversations about that. Again, it also, you we had to come to terms with the fact that what's clean for me is not maybe clean for him. And so we had to come to a middle ground there. ⁓

Guest (: 18:41

Yeah. Right.

I'm sorry, I'm only laughing because, like me, doing all the cooking and cleaning was one of the big issues in our marriage. So, like things didn't automatically change overnight for us. Like, I know that your ex participated more in the household chores, and I'm not blaming that on my ex. A lot of that was like my fault for allowing that to happen, but still, nonetheless, I did all of that domestic-type stuff. So I think it took him a while, actually to learn how to go to the grocery store and learn how to cook some things. So our situation was very specific to that. So I'm like smiling, listening, listening to you say that one person's expectations of cleanliness are different from another person's. That was like magnified times a hundred with us.

Tania Leichliter (: 19:44

Well, I think that, you know, although my ex, you know, knew how to grill, he hadn't been the one going to the supermarket and doing meal planning. And it was really overwhelming for him to go to work and have to come home and think about all those things. And the kids had an expectation of what kind of food would be put on the table for their entire lives. And, you know,

Guest (: 20:00

Yes.

Tania Leichliter (: 20:12

They would complain to me over and over again that, like dad makes three meals, right? So our daughter got him a cookbook, you know, for Christmas. I got him a set of knives because he said he was going to commit to learning how to cook better. So he really is trying, and I really do admire him for wanting.

Guest (: 20:18

you

Tania Leichliter (: 20:35

to learn and to want to, just be better for them. And he's not as overwhelmed anymore. He knows how to go to the market and be in and out of there in 15 minutes. Whereas before, I think it probably took him an hour, which is an hour he didn't have. And so now he's doing great. I mean, it's all second nature. Yeah. And it just takes a little time. And honestly, I had things that I didn't do. And I tell everybody that I wasn't the one who oversaw our

Guest (: 20:51

Yeah, right. Same.

Tania Leichliter (: 21:03

finances, I made money, always worked, and I didn't pay the bills. I didn't take out the garbage. to be honest, just like he's probably feeling very proud of, of the

Guest (: 21:06

Right.

Tania Leichliter (: 21:12

tremendous journey that he's been on to get to where he is. I'm really proud of myself because I was kind of in a self-doubt place in terms of, gosh, how am I going to do this without him? And you know what? I'm doing fine. You just have to put your head down and learn it. It's not such a big deal. Just do it and

Guest (: 21:32

It's so interesting you're saying all this, because I was literally just reflecting about how he grew as a result of our divorce, and things he learned how to do, and things that I learned how to do. Like you were saying, there's really so much respect for those single parents out there who do all of this all the time by themselves. But like you said, there is an element of like tremendous pride, things you didn't have to do when you had a partner because you divided and conquered.

Like, awesome for me that I feel like my kids can go to their dad's and not be eating McDonald's or like DoorDash every night, like the Hill Cook. Hill Cook now and likes the same when they come to my house, like I can, you know, do things around the house that I never thought that I could do before, or handle any kind of situation just by asking questions and learning.

Like you said, I've learned so much. So if you do it correctly and are open-minded and patient, it just takes time, right? You don't learn those things overnight.

Tania Leichliter (: 22:37

No, and I also think it is supportive. I know, like some people just...

Kind of, get off on their ex not being as good at something as they are, and it pumps them up, and it gives them more power instead of trying to encourage them and bring them up, so your kids have a better experience. So it's not a competition. It's about two people who are trying to be the best parents they can possibly be. And the only way you can do that is if you

support each other as co-parents and evolve into having this co-parent relationship. He doesn't want me to fail. He doesn't want me to fail in terms of not being able to learn how to do things around the house. He doesn't want me to fail as a parent, so it makes him look like a better parent.

want him to I want him to be a good cook. I don't want to get the text messages from my kids saying like, Gosh, Dad made spaghetti and meat sauce again for the millionth time. I want to get the text like, My gosh, Dad made the most fabulous meal.

Yeah, I think that there is this idea that you can't encourage each other because you want them to like you better. But why? Your kids deserve that, you know?

Guest (: 23:54

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely

100%. I think when parents tear each other down, what's behind that? That's your hurt. You're angry. That's like your pain and how you present that as you attack the other person. But if you just take a step back and you're like, look, this is all about our children.

You want your children to adjust and come out as unscathed as possible. So you have to just kind of check your ego at the door, and like you said, support the other person, encourage the other person. I remember one time I went to my ex's house to pick up the kids, and I walked in the door and it smelled so good in there. And I went into the kitchen, and I was like, Are you cooking? And I was like, What are you cooking? I was looking in all the pots.

And he told me that his mom had helped him with this recipe, and I had a bite. I was like, This is delicious. And I just like kind of celebrated him and praised him because, like, part of me, you know, like if we're being honest, I was like, gosh, well, how come he never did this when we were married? But you know, at the end of the day, everything happens for a reason. I think.

And also like, it's water under the bridge, right? It's water under the bridge. We were already divorced. At the end of the day, I'm proud of him; it's awesome. And the more you support each other and encourage each other, the more unscathed your kids turn out. And that's what it's all about. People have said to me over and over, Like your kids, your kids are flourishing. And I'm like, well, you know, like we try not to, we try not to battle.

You know, or make little snarky comments. You know, he is a good person, and you know, maybe our marriage wasn't great, but like the thing is, is that at the end of the day, he's a great dad, and why wouldn't I want my kids to have a great relationship with their father? Like, why would I want to belittle him or criticize him? You know, everyone knows that it's healthier for them to, you know, have this, this amicable situation, and my kids are smart.

Like, at the end of the day, if I'm spending all my time criticizing him, at some point, that's going to turn back on me and punish me. And they'll see through that, you know? So I couldn't agree more. And sometimes you just have to like, if you need to like go cry to yourself or vent to your mom or, you know, bitch to your friends about whatever it is, but just like keep that, try to keep that apart from the kids.

Tania Leichliter (: 26:27

Yeah, I say over and over again, and I've had like three podcast guests talk about it. But if you disparage your soon-to-be ex or your ex and you talk badly about them and you're constantly throwing them under the bus, what you don't realize is that when your children hear that, they also know they're 50 % mom and 50 % dad. So if you know, the other spouse has all of these bad traits because you keep telling them to the kids, then the kids are going to feel like they're 50

because your makeup is both of you. And so, it's probably not a conscious thought, but it's definitely a subconscious thought. And there's more and more trauma that you can create in children when you sit around disparaging and throwing your soon-to-be ex under the bus and saying how horrible they are. Like, the only person that you're going to hurt is your children when you do that.

And the intent is not to hurt your children. The intent is to make sure your children feel loved and that they believe that they have two parents who are very committed to them. And so many people are like, well, my soon-to-be ex isn't like yours or isn't like your friends. You know, they're not trying, and they aren't showing up, and they're, you know, given every opportunity to try to be a good co-parent, and they're just not.

And my response to that is like, you're right. Okay, not everybody is going to respond like your ex or mine. But at the end of the day, you can't control that other individual either. You can only control how you react to them. So if you're continuing to threaten them or criticize them in front of them, in front of the kids, you're probably just going to get those same kind of threats and attacks right back. They're not very motivating. And I know that, you know, anybody who's a coach or anybody who's a teacher.

Like, if you see a child or if you see somebody you're coaching, if you continue to put that person down, do you think they're gonna work hard? No. Right? You know, when do you see the best in your students? When do you see the best in, you know, people that you're coaching? Is when you encourage them. When you give them positive feedback. Yeah.

Guest (: 28:25

Right. Right. Right.

Absolutely.

Absolutely. And I think that's where the nesting, like bringing it full circle around to the nesting, like it's the epitome of working together, right? For the sake of the kids. And so if you're willing to, like, you know, start out or in your case, three years, like that's impressive. That's a really long time. I think, I think our mediator told us that there was an average of 18 months with nesting.

But just think of that, that's a pretty long time it gives the kids to kind of wrap their mind around everything and understand that it's doable. In my mind, in my way of thinking, it was just, like I said, a no-brainer for us. The nesting, I think the nesting just laid the groundwork for a really nice working co-parenting situation moving forward.

Tania Leichliter (: 29:30

I think that the reason why we've done it for so long is that we had teenagers, and what happens when you have a parenting plan where the kids are going back and forth when the kids are teenagers, they start making their own decisions. They're supposed to be at mom's or they're supposed to be at dad's, but when they're 17, they just kind of end up doing what they want, and you can put your foot down and try to force them to do that. But again, it's it becomes more loosey goosey. And we just felt very strongly about wanting our kids to have equal time with each one of us. And I know that my ex didn't want to stay in our town if he was going to not nest because he wanted to be closer to work. And it actually saved us potentially some money because we have two kids, and our apartment was a two-bedroom.

and not a three-bedroom. So if one of us had to rent a three-bedroom and then also potentially hold onto this house, I think it would have cost us more money. So I don't know, there are a lot of ways to look at the nesting opportunity. Some people think it is gonna cost more, but I believe it could cost less unless you are selling off your family home, utilizing that money

to find two separate residences that will be big enough for your entire family. So I think there potentially could be some cost benefits, but it's definitely something for you to look at and put into a spreadsheet and see how that all works. And the other thing is you're sharing food costs as well. You know, once you get, you know, and maybe you could share a little bit because I know that there was child support coming to you on your side. So when you guys were nesting, how did you work the cost or the payment structure, and how did that apply to the housing costs?

What did you do with the food? You were still contributing equally to the food? Like, how did that work?

Guest (: 31:24

Yeah. I don't know. Our situation was so unique

We're just like super laid back with that stuff. And also, I think like money, like he just bought the groceries when he was there, and I bought the groceries when I was there, and we didn't like.

or how much it costs or anything like that. So, I don't think our situation is very typical.

Tania Leichliter (: 31:43

Yeah, we keep every single dime that we spend on our children or on food or like whatever is happening in the house, keep, each of us keep a running spreadsheet, and we reconcile at the end of the month and split the costs.

Guest (: 31:56

Well, I mean, I think that's

smart for most people. We just don't do that.

Tania Leichliter (: 31:59

Yeah, well, but like

medical bills, things like that, like they're always vet bills, like anything that's, that's where the balance comes. Cause if one of us pays a thousand-dollar medical bill for a kid, you know, we've now spent a thousand dollars more that month. So, it turned out that the groceries and stuff are usually pretty even, but we still keep track of it. ⁓

Guest (: 32:05

Yeah, also.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, no,

Tania Leichliter (: 32:22

So this has been such a really helpful conversation. I wanna thank my friend for coming on and sharing her story because it is these real-life stories of amicable resolutions, of resolutions that may include nesting, but they're coming from real people, real people who have had this experience and can really share with all of you. And I always end each one of my podcast episodes with Tania's three top tips, things that I pulled from the episode that we just recorded. And so today I want to talk about tip number one, which is that if you believe that you can't afford nesting because you believe that having a second residence is going to be more expensive than an alternative solution, I just want you to think again, actually do the numbers. Because if you intend to have your children moving back and forth between two residences, you're going to have to have space for them in that other residence. So at least it needs to be a two-bedroom. And so there are only two of you, your spouse and yourself. And therefore, I just want to challenge you to figure out if this is at all possible.

The second thing I want to just give everybody a tip on is something that Meredith talked about as it relates to wanting to be two really good parents.

I know that some individuals say, Well, my soon-to-be ex doesn't want to be a good parent. But the only way that you can really move in that direction is if you support one another in a positive way. I mean, she talked about, you know,

smelling the delicious cooking that he was doing on the stove. And I just think that being able to cheer people on and say job well done and making sure that they feel like, wow, I'm feeling proud about my progress. So instead of condemning them or making them feel bad, like, my God, the kids called again and they said that you made spaghetti and meat sauce for the millionth time. That kind of tone is not going to get you anywhere.

An encouraging tone might be like, Hey, you know what, the kids, I made this the other night for dinner, the kids really enjoyed it. I'm happy to send over the recipe, and maybe you guys can cook it together.

So again, being really more encouraging. And then the last thing is, you know, everybody is going to be different in the way they set their boundaries. And so if you are going to go ahead and try to nest, I do tell you to sit down and think about what's going to work with each one of you in terms of boundaries, because

You know, there is still going to be a little bit of discomfort in sharing that second residence, meaning that if you do start to date and there are other people coming in and out of there, you might...

You know, I have some discomfort. So sending out the message around what that boundary is. So there's no trace that anyone has been there. Maybe you want to say, just don't let me know that they're there. Again, you want to make sure that you're setting the boundaries that work for you. And also in the family home, and making sure that, you know, if not having a dish, a whole sink full of dishes is something that's going to really bother you when you enter the house, make sure you make that a condition that there are no dishes in the sink and the dish washer is being run and that there's certain food staples in the fridge.

So those are really my three top tips. And I just want to thank my friend again for being on today's podcast. And this is such a hot topic. So many people in my support group asked me about nesting. So again, I really, really thank you for coming on today.

Guest (: 35:57

Thank you, Tania. As always, I have so much fun just talking and sharing with you. And I just respect everything you're doing so much. And I was happy to share my story. So thank you for having me on.

Tania Leichliter (: 36:11

Great. Hopefully, we'll have you again, and we will talk about something else that we come up with. All right. Thanks for joining Better Than Bitter.

Guest (: 36:15

Perfect.

Have a wonderful day. Bye.

Tania Leichliter (: 36:21

Thanks for tuning in to Better Than Bitter, navigating an amicable divorce. Whether you are at the beginning of your divorce journey, midway through, or even done, we want the stories from our guests to give you hope that an amicable resolution is possible. If you'd like to dive deeper into today's episode, check out our show notes for a full transcript, reflections, and links to learn more about Better Than Bitter's coaching courses,

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