Introduction (: 00:06

Welcome to the Better Than Bitter™ Divorce Podcast, where we flip the script on divorce and show you how to have a more amicable divorce resolution. I'm your host, Tania Leichliter a divorce coach, a certified life coach, and the mastermind behind the Better Than Bitter five-step game plan course, where I help individuals build a pathway towards a more amicable divorce resolution.

Each week, I'll bring you uplifting stories from people who've successfully experienced amicable separations, proving that divorce doesn't have to be a battleground. Whether you're overwhelmed with grief, struggling with custody and co-parenting, or just dealing with a high conflict individual, this podcast is here to guide you towards reclaiming your life and being what I know is possible, better than bitter.

Tania Leichliter (: 00:01

Welcome to episode number five of the Better Than Bitter Divorce podcast. Today we have Molly Faye. I am so excited to have Molly on our podcast today. She is the mother of Callie Donovan, who was our first person that we had onto our podcast. Molly is an award winning journalist and she co-hosts the Morning Blend on TMJ4 in Milwaukee's NBC affiliate.

Molly earned a degree in broadcasting journalism from the University of Missouri, and she worked as an investigative reporter and a news anchor prior to her current role at WTMJ.

n and has been divorced since: 2011

arried to her husband Ross in: 2020

makes sure that her dog, Zeke, gets just the same level of care as she'd cared for her children. She practices hot yoga and goes for early morning walks. Welcome, Molly.

Molly. fay (: 01:27

Wow, that's such a nice introduction. I am so excited to talk to you, Tania. Callie has said so many incredible things about you and I just love what you're about in coaching people to have amicable, successful divorces. So it's my pleasure to join you.

Tania Leichliter (: 01:46

Well, good. Well, I appreciate the time that you're giving. I know you're super busy. And I just, you know, because Callie was on already and I'm hoping that all of our listeners really did get a chance to listen to Callie's interview because I wanted to showcase the effects on adult children of amicable divorce resolutions. And the reason why that was important to me is because sometimes when we go through a divorce, we're very caught up.

in ourselves, you know, and how we are feeling. And sometimes being able to put that as a secondary and being able to focus on doing what we believe is going to be right for our kids, not just for now. It's not about just custody. It's not about just parenting time, but how can we set them up for future success in their lives, in their relationships? Because the idea of having a contentious litigation battle, the idea

that children could be brought in as weapons into the divorce process to me just makes my skin crawl. So I am so happy that you're here to tell us about what it actually took to get Callie to have the perspective by which she does in terms of what an amicable divorce means to her. So that is really where I want to start with you. How did the, you know, from the day that you and your now ex,

decided to get divorced, explained to me kind of before you even talk to the children about it, what happened in that window of time.

Molly.fay (: 03:21

listen, you know, here's the thing is that none of this is easy. And I think that's one of the most important things that I can say. Generally, there's enough hurt, enough anger, enough disappointment, enough guilt to go around between the couple, between both you and your ex spouse. So I would never like for anybody to think that it's easy.

But I think to me it's just like anything else in life where it comes down to it being a choice. You cannot have an amicable good situation if both people are not committed to it and choosing that. If one or both of you is not choosing that, it won't work. One person, no matter how hard they try.

is not gonna be enough to overcome the negativity, the hate, those kinds of things. I consider myself extremely lucky that the person I married, my ex-husband, that Keith was somebody who was committed to making it work for the kids.

Tania Leichliter (: 04:32

So you say that it really does come down to both people being on the same page. But what would you say if one person was fully committed, but one person you could influence? Meaning that what would you say if you didn't have that partner that was 100 % committed to the kids? What would you say to them to try to get them to understand

that we have a choice here and how do you convince that individual to get on the same page?

Molly.fay (: 05:11

Yeah, thankfully Keith, my ex-husband didn't need any convincing, but I think your question is so good and so valuable because I'm aware of situations where that's not the case. And some people can be persuaded, obviously, and some people cannot. One of the things that Keith has always said that he thinks is funny is I love my kids more than I hate Molly. And the thing is it's like,

Okay, that sounds terrible. his meaning, the intention behind that was who are you gonna put first? And honestly, it comes down to, are you gonna put your children who you say you love and adore first? Or are you gonna be so committed to the hate or the anger or the resentment that you have that you put that first and it's going to blind you to the

unbelievable positive outcomes that happen when parents just get along. It doesn't mean that you're over maybe what happened or that you want to stay married to that person or that any of those things. It just means that that you both make a decision to commit to putting the kids first and you can still have arguments.

my bias would be to have them outside of their purview, know, so where they're not hearing in a part of it or pulled into the middle of it. It means not oversharing with your kids' details because there are going to be two sides to every story. No one person in the relationship generally is responsible for the breakdown of the relationship. So I think to persuade somebody,

who's maybe not on board with making it amicable is difficult. But I think if you can convince that person that your kids are gonna be the benefactors of being an adult and being kind and being thoughtful toward that person because you married them, you had children with them. If you're married and you get a divorce and there are no children involved, to me, it can be very clean. It's not messy, but when there are kids involved.

it does get more complicated, but it's not their fault that you and their other parent couldn't get along or couldn't sustain the relationship for whatever the reasons are. so I think if you just, because kids, there's so much research about the benefits for kids when the two parents get along. They have healthier relationships. They have better.

stronger self-esteem, they have more confidence, they're probably able to share more kindness with the people that they interact with too.

Tania Leichliter (: 07:54

I totally agree. And one of the things that I think is really important that we teach at Better Than Bitter, or say I teach at Better Than Bitter, is that it's really important that people process their emotional divorce before they step into that legal divorce. Because that legal divorce is really just the hardest business negotiation or contract negotiation you probably will ever experience, especially if you have children.

But if you're so caught up in the emotion, what you had talked about, the resentment, the anger, the disappointment, if you're still in the trenches with those deep emotions and you step into your legal negotiation, that bleeds into that legal negotiation. You believe that you can like insert and create revenge by negotiating or taking back or pulling or restricting and not compromising. And, you know, that really hinders.

a more amicable resolution. So can you talk to me a little bit about that emotional healing that you had to do from the time you said, okay, it's time for divorce until the time you guys actually got the lawyers and started getting the asset division and defining exactly what the final child custody parenting plan was going to be? What was that window of time?

Molly.fay (: 08:51

.

Tania Leichliter (: 09:19

And what did you do to get your mindset in the right place?

Molly.fay (: 09:20

.

So this is a tough question because I think it would be wonderful to think that you would resolve the emotional baggage or emotional issues surrounding divorce before you got to the point of hiring attorneys and maybe child specialists and all those other things and before the legal proceedings. I don't think that often happens.

I also think it often takes many years for people to truly process the emotions that go with a divorce. For me, one of the more overriding emotions was guilt because I felt bad for my kids to be raised in what people will call a broken home or a split family. And certainly the idea of sharing two households and having them go-between

when they're younger is really hard for parents to accept and they feel, I think, very badly about that. To be honest, one of the things that has helped me the most when you talk about putting aside some of those negative emotions like resentment and anger and all of that is a sermon our pastor gave in church. And it was the story of the two wolves. And there was a black wolf and a

and white wolf. And it was a wonderful message that I won't sum up very well. But the bottom line is which wolf survives? So the black wolf is evil and the white wolf is good. And is it the wolf that's stronger, physically stronger? Is it the wolf who's more clever, who's able to outwit his would-be attackers? Is it the wolf who is the best-looking? Is it

which wolf is the one that survives? And the bottom line was it's the wolf you feed. So if you are feeding your black wolf, if you are, if you are feeding negativity and you're feeding anger and you're trying to convince your, your kids that your ex spouse is not a good person, that black wolf is going to win. That's going to be the wolf that survives.

And are you feeding that that well, some people will get up in the morning and they'll feed that black wolf breakfast. Then they'll feed it lunch and they'll make a really healthy gourmet dinner. And then they'll give the black wolf a big snack before they go to bed. And the opposite of that is feeding your good wolf. And this is true in life, not just divorce, but are you, are you feeding good things? I'll often say to my kids, you know, your dad is so talented. He's the best photographer producer I've ever known.

Or they'll say, I need to do this project. I don't know what to do. I'll say, you should ask your dad because he is great at these types of projects. He's the best storyteller I've ever known. He has, he's a real handyman. He has wonderful qualities. And just because we're divorced doesn't mean that he no longer possesses those wonderful qualities. So it, again, is, it gets back to that choice thing. And if the wolf that you are feeding and you are feeding it positive things,

then your kids, I mean, you talk to Callie, you know, those positive things happen because her dad and hopefully her mom have been feeding the white wolf rather than letting the black wolf take over and ruin their lives.

Tania Leichliter (: 12:43

my gosh, this brings back just such like a moment for me because I saw that you do long walks in the woods with your dogs, me too. I also do hot yoga. But I was really, really empowered in that process to find myself my theme song that I was gonna march to during the beginning stages.

Molly.fay (: 12:55

I love it.

Tania Leichliter (: 13:11

of my divorce process and I would throw on my AirPods and I found this song by Jason Mraz and it was called Look for the Good in Everyone. And I would put that on every morning and I would take a 45-minute walk in the trail and that would be the only song that I would listen to on repeat because every single day I wanted to feed that white wolf. I wanted to look at all the amazing things that

my soon-to-be ex-husband had and all the amazing qualities, what a great dad he was, how smart he was, how grateful I was for, even though I always worked, he managed our finances really well, he put me in a really good position, like he's great with my family. I just, every day, I wanted to remember all of the good. Now our marriage obviously wasn't...

perfect and there were good qualities and bad. And at the end of the day, you make decisions as a couple as to like, are we looking at life through the same lens? Is it what we want in our future the same? Can our love languages match? I think that lot of that relationships and how they endure over time.

connects back to a lot of those things. And sometimes you just say like, okay, well, these are all the amazing things. And these are all the things that maybe aren't the right things for me moving forward. But if every day I focus on the white wolf and I feed myself those ideas, like I'm gonna be better off moving into my divorce process, the legal part, because it is hard. And I tell people that amicable divorces don't mean that everything's all like butterflies and daisies. Like it's not.

or should I say rainbows and butterflies, but in unicorns, it's not like it is, you know, the actual legal process is very, very hard. It's like running a marathon and you get to a certain point and you're like, my God, I just bonked. I hit a wall. Like, I don't think I'm going to be able to move through it. But yet you do. As long as you're feeding the white wolf,

Molly.fay (: 14:57

And unicorns.

Tania Leichliter (: 15:21

and recognizing the good things that can come on the other side and that you're doing the best you can for your children, so that you can release some of that guilt. Because I told my daughter and our son, this is just going to be a family re-imagined. And at that point, my daughter was like, what mom? Like, my God, whatever, you life coach.

Molly.fay (: 15:22

You

Yes, yes.

Tania Leichliter (: 15:49

But if you ask her now, and just like when I taught to Callie, that's exactly what it was. The families just got re-imagined. And you still consider your ex part of your family. It's just a different membership.

Molly.fay (: 15:57

a critically important part of the family. mean, and after the divorce, we went to Disney World with our kids. It was something we had been there when they were really young. And then when they were still in grade school, maybe the oldest was in, maybe Callie was in middle school. But we wanted to do that again as a re-imagined family to have those...

memories, those beautiful memories and to revisit. you know, the same with enjoying holidays together or just helping out, like taking care of the dog or a lift to the mechanics' place or whatever it is. It's I think the thing that's most troubling about this is the opposite of the amicable divorce is that usually one person puts themselves in a position where they sort of blame the other person for everything that went wrong.

there's very little self-awareness that goes with that type of approach because it does, it takes two. And maybe it's very clear to you or a lot of other people that the other person did more bad stuff than you did. But when you are critical of that ex-spouse and you either put them down or you refuse to excuse mistakes or you blame them, the message that children receive is that they're bad.

because they came from that parent. They are 50 % that other parent. You married them, you decided to make them a parent together with you. And so when you criticize that other parent, put them down, shut them out, you are in a sense criticizing that other child. And what example are you setting for future relationships? Because your kids may one day find themselves.

in difficult spots in a relationship or perhaps even divorce themselves. I hope none of my kids are divorced, but I hope that if they're in a relationship that's not working that they will follow their heart and that they will have some good role models to help them lead the way if that's a choice that they or their spouse or both make in their own lives.

Tania Leichliter (: 18:03

I just think that that's such an important message. And I know that with Callie, she says, you know, I hope I get married and, you know, have a healthy relationship and we live happily ever after. She's like, but you know what? I'm not afraid of divorce. Like, she's like, I'm not gonna like, I don't have a fear about it. I don't worry about it. I don't, you know, and I take that to heart because, you know, I think that

Molly.fay (: 18:19

you

Tania Leichliter (: 18:31

When my daughter talks about divorce, my parents were divorced, and my ex's parents were divorced. Her thoughts are about, doomed for divorce. I do a lot around cognitive restructuring and we talk a lot about how your life circumstances aren't what create your feelings, it's your thoughts about them. This thought that I am doomed,

Molly.fay (: 18:43

Yeah.

Tania Leichliter (: 19:00

which is not a fact, right? It's just because she's looking at the circumstance and she's thinking about it in a way that's giving her a sense of helplessness or whatever. And I continue to try to get her to reframe that. And I was like, listen, 50 % of Americans get divorced, you know? it's just a statistic. And just because your parents were divorced, you know, and our parents were divorced, but they're just part of the 50%.

Molly.fay (: 19:17

Yeah.

Tania Leichliter (: 19:28

and we are all living longer, you know? And so we have multiple chapters. Like our parents, parents, like they didn't have as many chapters as we did, you know? They didn't have to, they got married earlier probably, but yet like they died younger. So they didn't have as many life transitions to go through together. And with every life transition, you have choices. And I just think it's so amazing how you and your ex,

Molly.fay (: 19:31

Yeah.

for sure.

Tania Leichliter (: 19:57

have really displayed so much just humility and love. And I always talk about the fact that, you know, it feels so much better to love than it does to hate. And if you wanna get divorced and you wanna hold on to hate, guess what? That's gonna make your life not feel great, right? You know?

Molly.fay (: 20:19

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You're not only, you're definitely hurting yourself, you're also hurting your kids. And I would argue that certain things that make a good relationship become even more important in a divorce. As an example, communication. So when you're in a healthy, happy relationship, communication is important. I think in a divorce, communication becomes even more important.

So, hey, here's when I'm going to pick up the kids. Hey, I have to be out of town for work. Is there any way you can help me out? I mean, but it goes way beyond to, you know, struggles that your kids are having at school, perhaps academically. It might be mental health issues. You mentioned my, my passion for, for helping people work with emotional and mental health. You know, I often would talk through with my ex-husband, hey, you know,

One of our kids is really struggling. I'm worried about this. What are your thoughts about it? Can we talk to them together? You know, those kinds of things. Flexibility is so many of your tips, your holiday guide, it was awesome by the way, are about flexibility. Yeah, be more flexible. You have to be more flexible in a divorce than when you're living in the same household. All of these things become critical to really making it work. And this isn't to fool anybody to say that,

Tania Leichliter (: 21:26

All good.

Molly.fay (: 21:42

I don't have some thoughts about my ex-husband. I know he does about me. Like, that really made me mad. I really wish he hadn't done that or whatever it is. It's not that it's like you said, unicorns and butterflies and spark glitter, you know, but it's, being able to set that aside. And you know what, if you have an issue with that ex-spouse, I would say talk to someone else, talk to your, your mom. If you trust her, talk to your best friend, talk to a coworker who's been through the same thing.

Tania Leichliter (: 21:54

Yeah.

Molly.fay (: 22:09

You don't need to address those grievances with your children. That's where people run into problems.

Tania Leichliter (: 22:15

Yeah, absolutely. And I actually have been teaching this webinar. It's called six communication techniques on how to get what you want in divorce. And it was actually modeled after the Gottman's relationship repair checklist, which is the Gottman's are the people who really help people in marriage. But when I read through that, I was like, my gosh, like this needs to be redone, but for divorce, because you are right. Communication.

is so important in divorce and so much more important almost than in marriage when it comes to the kids because there are two different worlds that these kids are experiencing and making sure that you are one team. And I know that I had a parenting coach on a couple of episodes again and she talked about really taking a look at the partnership before you got divorced.

and your co-parenting relationship and making sure that you completely push that old partnership away to be able to formulate a new co-parenting partnership that is absent of all of the things that came with the old relationship. And it's just so important that it is a new partnership that needs to be established. And you know what?

Now that each of you are having to do each other's jobs, and that's what I talk about a lot, like, yeah, when you're married, like one person does the activities and one person's doing the bills and one person's, you know, maybe doing the doctor's appointments. Well, a lot of times in divorce, like you're dividing and conquering and you're taking on all these new roles that you never had to do. And yet one person might not be as good as the other. I know my

My ex wasn't as good at cooking or going food shopping. And for a while the kids were complaining about it, but I was supporting him and making sure that the kids just gave him some space and encouraged them. Recipes, like, you know, do what they can to support him instead of bashing him and being like, I'll make you something and keep it in the fridge. You know, I mean, sometimes I do do that because we still nest. And so I do like to make a little extra food. So.

Molly.fay (: 24:08

Yeah.

Tania Leichliter (: 24:25

If there's something that kids really want, in the fridge. But in general, it's about coming together as a new partnership and learning how to communicate, be flexible, be supportive. I hear all these war stories where like, well, it's his night. He's just gonna need to go do it. And it's like, what good is that doing? The only person you're hurting is your kids.

Molly.fay (: 24:43

Yes.

Tania Leichliter (: 24:48

Or, know, when dad was supposed to pick you up and now he's asking me to take you to his house. you know, those kind of like snide comments like, who are you hurting? You are only hurting your children. You know, you know.

Molly.fay (: 25:02

Yeah, yes. Well, I think about, you think about, mentioned cooperation. I thought about when my ex-husband had hip surgery, I picked him up from the hospital with my youngest daughter, Maddie. And after dropping him off, we went and got his prescriptions filled. I think we got maybe a few snacks and then we visited him again, made sure he was, you know, feeling okay. And when we got back in the car,

she said to me, thank you so much for being so nice to my dad. parents can have no idea how much it means to their children when you are nice to their other parent. That person, regardless of mistakes, and we've all made them, that person deserves respect and that person deserves appreciation and that person.

deserves to be treated with kindness, just like the people that you pass on the street. And my ex-husband has a serious girlfriend and she gives, as an example, lovely gifts to my kids. Very thoughtful. Like, I would never think of some of the things that she's given them or, you know, cards they've said that are very nice. And I'll say that is so, you know, that is such a thoughtful gift.

or she invited them and I think they made crepes or they did something recently and they're a lot older. I'm like, that's so cool that she would cook with you guys and spend that time with you and you can always find good and nice things to say to them. And then how is that, how are we modeling behavior and doing the right thing? Because I'm not proud that I'm divorced, but I am proud of the many of the ways that I handled it.

especially as my kids were involved. And so you don't have to be proud that it happened. You don't even have to be happy. Maybe it wasn't your choice, like you say on your website, but how you react to it and how you choose to move forward is up to you. And I want to set a good example of kindness and love, not just to my kids who I adore, but also to the person who I chose to make their father.

Tania Leichliter (: 27:19

Absolutely, absolutely. And so I know we're kind of running out of time and I wanted to, I asked the same question to all of my guests who have been married. And I don't mean to catch you off guard because I don't believe I actually told you this was coming. But I wrote a blog about the 20-year marriage contract with the option to renew. And there was some thinking behind it because I got divorced at 20 years.

And I was thinking about how hard it is to get divorced and how hard the legal system has been to make, allow for you to get divorced. And there's all of these potential things that could end up in a legal battle. And so I thought about, well, what if, I know we have prenuptial agreements, but they're usually for people who have a lot of money or things that they want to make, keep separate. But what if...

Molly.fay (: 28:05

.

Tania Leichliter (: 28:16

It was more general for everyone getting married. It's so easy to get married and it's so hard to get divorced. So what if we had some forethought about, you know, a 15, a 20-year contract? It doesn't mean you get divorced. It just means that you have preemptively thought about, you know, if we have kids and one person stays at home and the other person works that we...

in writing say like we have together when we are feeling good about each other, know, set in stone, what would happen based on that decision? Like how will we divide our assets if we end up getting divorced? And thinking more thoroughly about our children and about what our focus is when you're coming in that amazing place of love, right? Because not everyone is like you and I who can actually continue to love, you know, after divorce or through the divorce process.

Molly.fay (: 29:04

.

Tania Leichliter (: 29:09

And that if they were in a place of love before, you know, when they're doing their 20-year marriage contract, and then there's an option to renew. And that is where I ask my guests, because would you have worked harder differently thinking about the fact, Ooh, like we're coming to that contract and what can I be doing differently? How can I be a better partner? How can I show kindness, and thoughtfulness? Because I want to work hard to keep this

together versus it just already going down that wrong, that path of no return. And then you end up, you know, ending things. So what are your thoughts about a 15-year or a 20-year marriage contract with the option to renew? And how would that have maybe shifted, you know, your life, your thinking, the way you invested in your relationship, et cetera.

Molly.fay (: 30:04

Gosh, that's a good question. I guess what I would say is, and I don't know if you're talking so much about the length of the marriage or the term.

I think you're asking what would you have done then in the relationship if you you saw it more as not just a lifetime for as long as you live, but is something that you would have the option to renew. What would you do differently? Am I understanding your question right?

Tania Leichliter (: 30:30

Yeah, exactly. Like, is there this thought about, yeah, like, first of all, if we had to put things on paper when we were in Madly in Love right at the beginning, we thought about the trajectory of our marriage. Like, what would we have potentially wanted to put into that contract? And as we're moving through the contract that...

thinking of like, God, I have to really work hard at this because I can't just assume that it's gonna be here tomorrow because it could be coming to an end because there's gonna be an option to renew or not renew.

Molly.fay (: 31:01

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of things I would do differently. I have a lot of faults, but one of the things that I think I do well is I'm aware, I'm reflective, and I'd like to make changes as a result of those reflections, not just sort of accept, I am the way I am, and I'm just gonna... Because I think it's never too late. That's the one thing I would say to anybody who's listening to you and to me is that if you haven't been dedicated to...

making kindness and peace and doing what's right for the sake of your kids. It's never too late. No matter how long you've been divorced or even if you're just starting the process. But you know, I think I remember one of the, was either a child specialist or a divorce. And we did go through mediation who asked us separately, well, why did you marry Keith? Which I thought was interesting. They don't ask, why did you get divorced? Why'd you marry him? I said, well, for one, I thought he'd be a great father.

And she said, were you right? And I said, absolutely. So I don't regret that he is the father of my kids because I think he's the reason they're so empathetic and compassionate and smart and creative and a lot of things that are really extremely cool about him. But I do think if we entered into relationships knowing there was an option to renew,

I think people would behave differently in their relationship because it's just like if you're playing in a sport, gotta come to that play every time you gotta bring your best game, no matter what sport it is.

And I think sometimes that's where we get lacks in relationships. We're not bringing our best game. We're not always thinking about the other person or about the future. And if are we going to renew this? Are they going to want to renew this contract with me? And maybe if we thought more about that, regardless of the term of that relationship, maybe we could avoid a lot more divorces.

Tania Leichliter (: 32:54

Yeah, I just, again, there is no right answer, but I just, love everybody that I have spoken to. They all come with a little different flavor and perspective. And it's just something that I just find fascinating because again, divorce has become so hard to do and it is so costly and people don't get divorced because of the cost or they don't get divorced because of what it could do to the kids. And a lot of people are just very unhappy, you know, and you know, one, if we, you know,

worked harder at our relationships, knowing that we had to had, you know, a renewal coming up. We had to be recruited for the team again. You know, you know, you don't just automatically get a place on the team. Like you got to be recruited again. And so you got to bring your A game and yeah, you know, what would that look like? And I really appreciate your perspective on that because that was different, like I said, than everybody else's. So it's been great. Molly, I could talk to you forever.

Molly.fay (: 33:30

Right, yes.

Same, ditto.

Tania Leichliter (: 33:49

I really just appreciate you being on the podcast today. And I always kind of end our podcast with the three tips, like the three things that I have pulled from each of the different interviews. The first thing I would say for the top tips that came from you today is that the one that survives is the one that you feed. So if you are feeding that black wolf,

Molly.fay (: 34:12

you

Tania Leichliter (: 34:18

I would say think again, because if you continue to feed that negativity into yourself, into your kids, that wolf will grow. So think about how you can feed that white wolf with positivity, with gratitude, focus on what's good and not what's bad, and make sure you're communicating those goods to your kids. The second thing is really just about the fact that not everything is gonna be

butterflies and rainbows or unicorns and that even though the perception of the children, is what you hope, they believe that really that everything that you did was positive and great. And that's what they should believe because keep the rest of the stuff behind closed doors. Stay on the same page. Learn how to communicate. That second tip that you gave about how important communication is in divorce.

That is just such an incredible tip for everybody to learn. And the third thing is just that you have choices. You have this choice right now in front of you. If you are just starting your divorce process or if you're in the middle of the divorce, you have a choice as to how you are going to show up in this new chapter. And you have a choice to decide that love and kindness is going to...

Molly.fay (: 35:26

.

Tania Leichliter (: 35:41

you know, be what wins versus the revenge and the bitterness and the negativity. So choose to feel better. Choose love, you know, because it's overall going to make you feel better and it's going to really affect your kids in the long run. So those are my three top tips for Molly today.

Molly.fay (: 35:52

I love that. If I could just say one really quick thing, because I love the way you summarized what I said and put them into tips. I would say if you don't know how your kids view the situation, don't be afraid to check in with them, almost regardless of age, and say to them, hey, do I make you

feel good about your dad? Do I make you feel good about seeing your mom? And how do you think we're doing at getting along and making life easier and lending to your happiness? If you're afraid to ask that question, that's a problem. And if you encourage your kids to be honest, you could really learn and course correct if you're not leading them down a positive path because

They deserve that.

Tania Leichliter (: 36:54

my gosh, Molly, that was the top of the top tip of the day. That was amazing. You are right. And you know what? That reminds me, I'm going to go check in with my kids. I try to do that frequently, but just the way that you said that was just exactly what people need to have the courage to do that because you don't know how your kids are going to respond. So it's okay to not know.

Molly.fay (: 37:01

you

Good for you.

Tania Leichliter (: 37:20

and still go and move yourself forward to ask that tough question because you need to be prepared in case they say like, no, you know what, mom, you're not doing a good job. And you have to be prepared for that, but know that you're ready to course correct and let them know that like, Hey, listen, I'm going to do thank you for the feedback, right? Because I definitely want to do better and it's okay to pay to be vulnerable there. And I talk about vulnerability a lot in my communication techniques and that it's okay to be vulnerable.

Molly.fay (: 37:39

Absolutely.

Tania Leichliter (: 37:48

even in a time of pain or a time of transition, it's okay to either talk to your soon to be ex about how you're feeling and needing to press pause buttons or talking to your kids. It's okay for them to also know that, hey, I'm still struggling too. You're not alone.

Molly.fay (: 38:07

Yeah, and reach out to people, associate with people like you, Tania. So if I'm looking for a friend and I'm going through a divorce, or maybe it's friends I already have, don't hang out with the people who are negative and into bashing their ex-spouse. Who wants that? That's not fun. That's not uplifting. Hang out with people like you. And if you can't find one,

Ask your friends, hey, do you know anybody who had an amicable divorce? Because I want to hang out with that person and be uplifted to be a bright light.

Tania Leichliter (: 38:38

Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's why I host support groups. So as part of our membership, we have this weekly support group because I want those people to connect with those people. Because you know what? There's not that many out there in your friend group that could say that they're, you know, came from such amicable divorces. So sometimes people have a hard time finding those people. And that's why we create a support group so people can find people like them who want this, who believe that it can happen and just need the courage.

and the connection with others to support them in being able to make this happen. All right, Molly, well, it was so great to connect and hopefully we will connect again soon. I'm sure I'll have lots of other podcast ideas for you after this.

Molly.fay (: 39:11

Yeah.

I love it, and I mean this most sincerely, keep up the good work. You're in the good fight. You're feeding your white wolf with the work that you're doing, so I appreciate you.

Tania Leichliter (: 39:27

Thank you.

means the world to me. Thank you so much, really. All right. Take care. That's you too.

Molly.fay (: 39:39

Nice to talk to you.

Thanks for tuning in to Better Than Bitter, navigating an amicable divorce. Whether you are at the beginning of your divorce journey, midway through, or even done, we want the stories from our guests to give you hope that an amicable resolution is possible. If you'd like to dive deeper into today's episode, check out our show notes for a full transcript, reflections, and links to learn more about Better Than Bitter's coaching courses, and how to connect with our fabulous guests. If you're ready for more support, you can head over to betterthanbitter.coach .

On our website you'll find details and additional information on our 5-Step Gameplan multimedia course, our different types of coaching methods, monthly memberships, events and retreats, and a whole lot more. Plus, we've got a ton of free resources, like our monthly newsletter, our private Facebook group, our Instagram channel, and a library of articles and free webinars to help you along the way. When you go to our website, you'll be able to schedule a free 45-minute breakthrough call. Remember, we're here to help you reach an amicable resolution. Find your courage and believe in your brighter future because you know what? It is possible.

At Better Than Bitter, we measure success by what we give and not by what we get. So let's change the divorce dialogue together. It's time to be better than bitter.